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I
welcome on board the Sputnik orbiting
the world with me haer Kara Mustafa
standing in for George Galloway and
still me gatri five years ago this month
NATO's operation unified protector
started in Libya the aim we were told
was to avert an imminent massacre in
Benghazi by stopping Gaddafi's Air Force
from flying above the rebel city as it
turned out the aim was standard regime
change and after the brutal lynching of
the Libyan leader the oil Rich North
African nation started its long and
predictable descent into chaos and
lawlessness today the country is a
failed State and has become a base for
the terror Network Isis to discuss this
in more detail and attempt to make sense
of what has become a nonsensical
situation is one of my favorite
political analysts author of divide and
ruin and journalist Dan glazbrook Dan
welcome to the show thank you Dan um you
know we were told initially that it was
just a no-fly zone that we were about to
save Libya from imminent Massacre you
know what happened just talk us through
the the origins really of the NATO
intervention the UN resolution was
actually implemented within about two or
3 days the capacity of uh Gaddafi's Air
Force to fly over Bengazi had been
destroyed and from that moment on the
invasion was illegal was not uh
justified by the UN Invasion and the
Mandate of of protecting civilians and
actually became a war against the Libyan
State and the destruction of the state
institutions so yeah that that's
absolutely right and Russia and China
noted this they noted this is not what
we signed up to the African nations who
who' acquiesced in that motion
explicitly said this is not what we
signed up to uh but they go very quickly
and obviously became regime change and
it's it's interesting now over the past
year we've had a number of admissions
that actually the the goal was regime
change from the start Clinton admitted
this before a congressional committee
last year Hillary Clinton um and Robert
Gates very um openly and frankly said
yes we've maintained a facade he said of
uh that this wasn't about regime change
but obviously it was so they've admitted
now openly that this was about uh regime
change although regime change itself is
a euphemism actually what was going on
was the destruction of the Libyan state
and its institutions and um as you said
gatri the the the predictable result of
that was the chaos and lawlessness that
we now see but they therefore deceit the
liberally deceit Russia China 9 the
other African States how did they get
away with that yeah they did yeah they
did um I mean what it's it's interesting
there was an article in I think it was
the um New York Review of Books if I'm
not mistaken um that was looking in in
detail at the um the African Union's
intervention and role in actually
creating the un uh resolution
1973 the African Union Representatives
insisted on actually uh articles one and
two of this resolution being that all
attempts would be first made to create a
ceasefire in the country before any
military activity took place and the
African Union uh delegation actually
worked hard to to uh Implement a
ceasefire to get both sides to agree to
a ceasefire and the Gaddafi government
actually agreed um to the ceasefire
proposal put forward by the African
Union and we can see the commitment of
the West to the resolution they signed
up to by the fact that none of them take
took it seriously none of them were
interested in this they were only
interested in prolonging and continuing
the war to to the conclusion that we now
see and Jacob zum had to fly back
actually to Johannesburg because his
plane was almost attacked when the
bombing raid started yeah it's it's a
clear indication really that there was
no intention to see a peaceful
resolution to this the burgeoning
conflict at the time yeah that's right
and and one of the reasons his plane was
attacked was uh because of the racism
that was a major uh a major motivation
of a lot of the Rebel forces in Libya um
this was completely downplayed and
overlooked uh in the west and when it
did start to come out that actually
these Rebel mobs supported by NATO were
massacring African migrants and so on it
was justified by Western politicians on
the grounds the spurious grounds that
all of these African migrants who are
being attacked and lynched and cut up
and so on were all uh mercenaries for
for Gaddafi Amnesty International
actually looked into this and they said
they couldn't find any evidence of any
mercenaries in fact what was happening
was that racist lynch mobs were going
around massacring African migrants um
and and and then claiming oh these are
mercenaries for Gaddafi so a big part of
the the motivation was was racist people
uh the rebels objected to the fact that
uh Libya had put uh put Libya into a
leading position within the African
Union they thought he wasting resources
on promoting African Development Across
the continent um he'd created an African
Development Bank or the African Union
had created an African develop
Development Bank that Libya had
contributed significant amounts of money
to tens of billions of dollars to as
well as an African monetary fund and all
of these institutions were designed to
free uh Africa from dependence on the
extortionate Western financial
institutions um but the a lot of the
Libyan rebels saw this as was wasting
Libya's money and so on they didn't like
the fact that Libyan immigrants were
given good conditions and jobs and so on
in in Libya and this racism was a very
clear part of the Rebellion that NATO uh
signed up to uh from the very beginning
and actually toga the only um black uh
North African
uh City in my understanding was
completely ethnically cleansed um by the
rebels with the full support of the NATO
imposed transitional government there
was a a report by the UN looking into
the humanitarian impact of uh uh of well
the humanitarian situation in in Libya
right now which is obviously the result
of the Fallout of what happened in 2011
um and it shows the devastating impact
um that that that that war has had the
Libya don't forget in 2011 before this
War uh was uh ranked highest in the UN
human development index in Africa um it
had the highest life expectancy on the
continent it had the lowest infam
mortality and so on um now that
situation has been completely reversed
now I think it said 2.44 million people
are dependent on uh on Aid 1.3 million
are Mal nourish lacking sufficient food
and perhaps most devastatingly for a
country of only 6 million people 1 .8
million libyans have fled the country to
Tunisia so I understand that the Libyan
investment Authority Under Gaddafi they
put quite some money in Prime locations
and Estates all over the world including
London and they even own 3% of the
financial times when it was still owned
by a person the question is where what
happened to all that well a lot of that
is still not been unlocked as still not
been released back to Libya that's right
um and it's interesting with the there's
now well there's three or four rival
governments now in Libya uh so there's
the one based in Tripoli uh which is the
remnants of the parliament that was
elected in 2012 that then lost the
election um in
2014 um then there's the government set
up by the Parliament that was elected in
2014 which is based in t Brook these two
have been at War um there's Isis as well
and now there's a un uh so-called Unity
government although it's interesting the
only
Unity it can really claim is unity of
the other two rival governments in
opposing it that that's the only real
and it's very interesting when this
government was announced the other two
existing governments on the ground
actually the presidents of both
parliaments signed a joint letter this
is two Waring Parliament signed a joint
letter to the UN saying neither of them
recognize its Authority and yet this is
being proposed as a as a Unity
government now this been established for
one reason only which is to provide a
fig Leaf of legitimacy for the
reoccupation of Libya that's now under
away um with British forces and US
forces and so on um but what's
interesting is that uh the T Brook
Parliament has been fighting against
Isis has actually retaken uh Benghazi in
recent months and has done so despite
the fact that it's been fighting if you
like with its hands tied uh behind its
back none of these funds have been
released to it uh and none of um uh that
there's still an arms embargo in place
they're not allowed to import any
weapons or the though the other
so-called islamist Parliament is
getting weapons supplied by Qatar and so
on Western allies uh so despite this
it's managed to retake Benghazi from
Isis and some of the other Associated
groups um the other point is the you
know remember the West set up this group
the friends of Libya they said we're the
friends of Libya right and what they
meant is we're going to destroy the
Libyan State um and these friends of
Libya the World Health Organization put
out a plea um this year for 50 million
PS dollars of Aid of which it said it's
received less than2 million
so this is these are the friends of
Libya these are the the friends that
Syria can expect if the friends of Syria
and and their their gangs ever come to
power and the health Minister uh in
Libya actually said that the budget for
this year uh for 2016 is zero because
none of these um funds Frozen funds are
being released so this is this is the
state and this is the devastation that's
being wrough on Libya still today by
NATO who's refusing to allow Libyan
money to be spent on Libyan people so as
long as this chaos continues the funds
will continue to held where they are now
no one is claiming them uh just down
touching on on the previous point you
made about a thousand British troops
actually currently stationed supposedly
stationed in Libya what do you make of
that is it a good thing is it a bad
thing can it make the situation any
worse yeah well um I'm not sure if there
are a thousand currently there we know
there are at least some special forces
there at the moment and there are plans
for 6,000 European troops to occupy
Libya of which the British contingent is
expected to be a thousand that hasn't
happened yet that's waiting for um uh
for the okay from this so-called sham
National Unity
government now the the the British
government keeps flip-flopping over this
excuse for reoccupying Libya don't
forget Britain and us have been
clamoring to reoccupy Libya ever since
their air bases were thrown out and
their air bases were the biggest in in
Africa in 1970 they were thrown out uh
by Gaddafi and then they've never been
back since they keep flip-flopping over
the reasons for this the pretext then I
have to cut you there I think a show on
immigration actually deserves an entire
program thanks again for being gu
great coming up next an uprising that
inspired a generation of uprisings
against colonial rule stay
tune welcome back to Sputnik a 100 years
ago this Easter a group of Irish men
rose up against oppressive British
colonial rule proclaiming Independence
of the Irish Republic triggering what is
known today as the Easter Rising their
movement not only inspired Ireland but
ressed peoples from across the world AR
bhedi one of the architects of algeria's
War of Independence against France
famously described the uprising as the
spark that triggered his ambition to rid
his country of its Colonial Masters
although the Easter Rising was rapidly
stemmed down by British forces
Independence was only finally achieved 6
years later to discuss this in more
detail is a man behind the hugely
successful Twitter handle crimes of
Britain GID McNamara GID welcome on
board thanks for having with me GID just
give us a bit of context to the Easter
Uprising you know what led these six
Irish men to actually proclaim the Irish
Republic and turn against British rulers
well British Roy in Ireland was always
so Fierce and dominant and if anything
Ireland was used as a laboratory for
Britain's Colonial escapades around the
world practiced everything there the
colonial police were formed in irland
then sent around the world the
oppression in IR at that time it was you
know only the second poorest place in
Europe after Russia under the Zar so the
poverty was was immense people had
nothing people were oppressed they were
being sent off to fight in Belgium you
know in the So-Cal defense of smaller
Nations and obviously for Britain
Ireland wasn't small enough a nation to
be defended if you will so even Connelly
when he was on his deathbed and Court
Marshal mentioned that the British
government has no right in line never
will have any right and he also talked
about this uh situation with sending
Irishmen to Belgium to be butchered why
can't they fight at home for their own
Nation so from the Proclamation of 1916
um the Irish Republic the British forces
have always waged war on this entity uh
it didn't disappear in 1916 it exists
today and they continued to wage war on
it you know it was a 32c county Irish
Republic that was claimed not 26 not a
three state and the British forces that
came in in 1916 16,000 of them crushed
it you know bombarded the place
artillery Pierce surrender to save
civilian lives it was a military
surrender not a political one one thing
that I find fascinating is although I
mean Britain pretty much recognizes the
atrocities committed in Africa in India
there's very little talk in the National
discourse about what happened in Ireland
you know why is Irish oppression so
absent from the national narrative first
of all it's so close to home if you will
for Britain uh it's almost like a for in
their side the way they carry on with it
I mean in the east of rising you had
atrocities the North King Street
Massacre shooting down innocent
civilians and even even in recent
history you know in in people's liftime
here they've they've massacred Irish
people on the streets so I think first
of all there's um a very there's a
racist element when it comes when it
comes to Irish people in England you
know they were the last people to be
added to the race relations act the
saying you know Luck of the Irish is uh
actually meant the irony how unlucky
they are it's nothing to do with any any
kind of good luck or good fortune and uh
John Lyon sung that song Luck of the
Irish in in the proper context but I
think in Britain they they see Ireland
almost still and try and claim it you
know with the British hours which is
they use a geographical Colonial context
to still lay claim to it and you know
with the events at the weekend which
they call Celebration but you know it
should be a commemoration um even in
Britain you know there's like um they
called it an uprising if you said not a
rising and negative connotation surround
it you know calling a rebellion or what
have you but but the that's that's the
British side of it but what about the
Irish itself you being a young Irish man
how do the Irish people today look back
at at that um well this year it's been
spoken about more than any other time in
in history arguably you know so I think
for the Youth um they're certainly
taking an interest and there's a lot of
revisionism going on that has to be said
there's a lot of revisionism the Irish
Republic is 32 counties it's not the 26
counties that that free state and is not
the Irish Republic and they don't they
obviously don't educate people is very
simple but they dare not mention that
the what these PE people died for in
1916 was not what the situation we have
today and you know in 1916 the British
didn't leave in 1922 they didn't leave
in 49 no and c in 98 you still have a
continued occupation in Ireland a few
months ago on your seat Set uh Senator
David Norris okay and he described that
the that the proclamation the Revolution
was actually just a replacement of flags
what do you think of that well you know
colony did say you know just TOS in the
green flag they're going to still rule
us for our land laws and our capitalists
and all this I think um I don't agree
with with his position but um certainly
the island that we have today there
there's very little difference from it
it is a British created State it's not
an Irish state it is cre it was created
by a British king you know it's not um
what the men died for in 196 certainly
not well coming back to the youth
actually I'm quite interested in seeing
because obviously Irish societ has
changed considerably in the past 20
years I mean it recently voted in favor
of gay marriage and this was previously
sort of very conservative Catholic
Society so you can see that there's been
a massive shift in in culture and
thinking and I'm just curious as to
whether you know the youth are familiar
with the struggle of their ancestors do
they relate to it and also are they
aware of the influence their ancestors
actually had across the globe I would
say they don't I think even in Ireland
today the elephant in the room is the
North didn't see it mentioned at all so
when it comes to what happened you know
they won know about Chittagong in India
that they done a commemoration in April
to coincide with it Uprising against the
British and they knew it was going to
fail but they took Spirit from the Irish
Rebellion you know Marcus Garvey um he
was inspired by hoochi Min and even in
Egypt in 1919 you know it had massive
impacts there was probably more
solidarity and links then than there is
today you know it's almost Island sort
at one stage was not really seen as part
of Europe just as a colony but now it is
part of Europe you know people there
seems they almost have
become part of Britain in a in a way
that they've accepted British culture
Irish culture is is almost like um at
the weekend almost you know it's like a
carnival um for some people rather than
what it should be about of commemorating
and remembering that it's unfinished um
you had parading Co island called
unfinished Revolution because it is it's
it is unfinished and it's continuing
well speaking of Unfinished um obviously
it had it left the proclamation of
independence left a bitter taste because
obviously it's not the whole of Island
that was liberated or became independent
what is your take on a completely
independent island is that feasible or
do you think that actually what is known
as the six counties of of ala do they
still want to remain under the British
crown well in 1918 the Irish people
voted for Island be unified um as one
and the colonial state in the north uh
which was founded by supremacist
secretary in Jerry Mander state so the
Mandate for Irish freedom is there from
1916 1918 that resides still today in
the army of the Irish Republic they've
got the authority it was given to them
by the third door um it stands with them
they don't need in today's society
people to go we need you here Pearce and
Conley didn't expect everybody to get
involved they wanted them to pledge
their allegiance to the Irish Republic
obviously but they didn't expect people
to get behind it there's always a
minority that will oppos British for the
majority in Ireland you know they might
lend support now and again but generally
they they stick with a status quo and as
long as you've got you know the unionist
feto in the north I mean it's it's a
very tricky situation you can't vote in
my opinion on a country's Independence
it's beneath its dignity and what you
know if if if it goes the wrong way
you're reinforcing Colonial occupation
it's my experience is that the people uh
in the north are more aware and more
more active in their wish to be unified
rather than people in the north they're
complacent to the white elephant isn't
it they're living under the occupation
you know it's around them and there's a
lot of splits and everything in Ireland
obviously which is throughout Irish
history people have split it's and pass
it's history repeating itself almost but
again as long as you've got almost you
know people working as British crown
reformers and you're not going to get
anywhere because they've been drooped um
you gone back to constit not even
constitutional nationalism arguably even
beyond that um so republicanism at the
moment is in an interesting phe and
arguably at his worst point but you're
you're a young guy and you've obviously
mastered social media what would you do
to engage the sort of Irish youth who at
the very least should be made aware of
their Noble history certainly I think
first of all you know many people when
you when you mention the word Ira is
seen as immediately terrorist and the
men that carried out 196 were the
unified together as in brotherly Unity
you know the citizen Army who were the
Socialists came to go over the Irish
volunteers um I think to get the youth
engaged it's first of all we have to get
back to basics and people need to
understand that the 32 counties is the
Irish Republic and the states we're
living in now are two illegitimate
states that have been created purely to
wage war in that Republic and they've
waged war in it ever since 1916 and
continue to do so it's um it's the
British way almost well you've got
30,000 followers so I'm guessing you get
a big conversation flowing there you
certainly I think I put stuff out from
all over the world with the Irish stuff
it is um certainly I don't try and
revise any histic to to the facts and um
people do retweet and all this kind of
carry on and do engage in discussion but
again people seem to think that because
of 26 counties independent in 1922 so
they say they that that part is done but
really that that is a big problem when
it comes to reunifying Ireland and it's
not a simple job of just the six joining
the 26 you you've actually got to go
with the Mandate that what colony died
for what Pierce died for they didn't die
for what we have today certainly
fascinating discussion gy thank you very
much for being on the show you've been a
great guest
thanks so it's that time of the show
when we find out what you guys have had
to say about the topics discussed today
gatri what's being said on the Twitter
sphere well on uh Easter Rising
Centenary of it Colette says thank God
for the brave men and women who led the
way to eventual partial freedom and L
Goen says the Irish are still oppressed
Now by Irish politicians who have
contempt for the people I'm afraid
that's the fate of all of us to be
honest impressive politicians are
founded every actually um about um uh
NATO's Air Forces 5 years ago Li today
being a basically a a basket case
watching Pakistan says Libya was the
most prosperous nation in Africa thanks
to Western intervention it's now
Afghanistan
2.0 well I'm afraid that's it really
every Western intervention in the middle
east of Africa has made a very bad
situation worse we only keep going on
that way and those are all the tweets
for today sadly that's the end of the
show with me half Sakara Mustafa
standing in for George Galloway and me
gatri but you can stay with us on
Twitter at rtor Sputnik on Facebook
Sputnik on Russia today until next week
it's been marvelous
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